Due to the bids going high on some of my products on ebay, I have yet again began looking to expand my SM lists. Something that has got my attention as of late is the rules for fielding an entirely mobile force via the special character Kor'Sarro Khan of the White Scars. Of course, you can have any chapter and use a "counts as" biker for the Khan, but I would think it would have to be appropriately modeled.
A sample of the SM Bike madness:
Kor'Sarro with his bike Moondrakkan
6 Squads of SM bikers, as troop choices, with +3 Bikes and Attack Bikes with Multi-meltas
This list runs you just under 1500 points at 1495. In a 1750 or a 2000 point list, you could fill 3 Fast Attack slots with more biker units, or give the troops special weapons like meltaguns. This sounds like an absolutely deadly list to use against some IG treadhead lists.
Think about it: You have got so many bikes zipping around with high toughness, decent armor saves, and TL bolters. Then add in the attack bikes with Multi-meltas, and you have a formidable fast-attacking force. Further add in meltaguns for each squad, and you have a truly fearsome tank busting list.
Some downsides:
A) The cost of buying so many freaking bikes. The thought alone makes my wallet wince. If you calculate that at the current price for a boxed set of 3 is 45 dollars, you can assume 15 dollars a bike is a fair estimate, if you consider that shipping will probably cost as much as you would save by buying at discount. You have 36 regular bikes, + Khan, + 6 attack bikes. The regular bikes alone would cost around 540 USD!!! Ouch! You still have the attack bikes and Khan. If the attack bikes are 20 (which is a very lowball estimate) you still end up tacking another 120 USD onto that 540, then another 15 at the least for a Kor'Sarro Khan. Grand total being 675 USD! At that cost, do you know how many AoBR sets you could buy? You could buy probably at least twelve, giving you 120 Tactical Marines, 12 Captains/Masters, 60 Terminators, and 12 Dreadnoughts, plus another 240 ork boyz, 60 nobs, 12 warbosses, and 36 deffcoptas! Kinda puts things in perspective, huh?
B) The lack of long range weaponry. Almost every single weapon in this list is limited to 24 inches or less. Your average board usually isn't longer than 4' wide, or at least mine aren't, so with a turboboost of 24" you can usually fill this gap pretty quick. But what if you don't get to go first? Then you can get picked apart by some opponents who are quick to grasp the idea.
C) The lack of numbers. You will get eaten alive by hordes, who will soak up your attacks with ease. I am thinking of boyz spam lists, which can be as heavy as up to 240 boys in a 1500 point list. Of course, that kind of horde is not going to have very powerful attacks, but with that many bodies of troops, that player won't need them. Quantity has a quality all of its own.
D) No Chapter Tactics. This means no choosing to fail morale tests, because Khan's special tactics overrides this. This may be a minor drawback to some, but to others it limits their tactical usefulness.
Some upsides:
A) Outflanking the enemy- a squad or two can be held back in reserve to outflank later in the game. With the short-range hitting power of melta weapons, this can ruin somebody's day if they have been keeping that armor at hull-down behind that hill!
B) They have turboboosters. This allows them to go a mind boggling distance across the board, as well as gives them additional protection from shooting that turn. They can't fire weapons that turn, but if you find yourself far away from any juicy targets, then this can turn the tide.
C) They also have higher Toughness. A higher Toughness allows them to absorb a bit more damage than your average tactical squad. This doesn't work in all situations, and they still can be instant-killed, but it does help get them close enough to shoot those guns.
D) Potential for LOTS of melta weapons. At 2 meltaguns and 1 multimelta per squad, this build allows you to really pour it on. Mech' armies will cry as your fast bikers pop open their transports like soda cans dropped down a flight of stairs.
Well, that should give you some food for thought on using SM bikes. At serious peril to your income, a biker list would definitely be a joy to play, even if not the most competitive list out there.
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Combat Tactics is just the ability to automatically fail any leadership test, representing the Marines' training to fall back and regroup.
ReplyDeleteCombat Squads is a completely different Space Marine special rule, and it's specific to squads that have it listed.
Bike Squads can still combat squad.
Page 51 of the codex lists all of the Space Marine Special Rules. The rules listed are separate and independent of each other. Taking Khan just replaces the Combat Tactics rule (auto fail if you want to) with his Chapter Tactics (bikes for troops, full outflanking/reserves).
I've fought against the marine bike list a few times now and it's definitely beatable. The problem is the small numbers- you can quickly and easily take out entire squads with just a few lucky rolls, and each biker that you eliminate will set you back Lord knows how many points.
ReplyDeleteIt's still scary as all #### and very tough to kill, though. As for purchasing, you can just by Ravenwing boxed sets. Sure you get landspeeders thrown in there and some DA bits, but you can ignore those and get bikes for cheaper than usual.
Oops, thanks for catching that AoM. I'll edit it to reflect that.
ReplyDeleteHey I would consider doing a Ravenwing bike force, 1 squad contains 6 bikers, 1 attack bike, 1 landspeeder. that is with the special char master of the ravenwing. This is all in the Dark Angels codex. oh and 1 squad comes in a ravenwing battleforce for 90 dollars. a 1500 pt army is about $350, all while getting the same type of army.
ReplyDeletemy 2 cents.
Luke
PS- how is the webzine doing?
I thought the comandsquad on bikes was the reason for starting a force like this.
ReplyDeletewell its an interesting Idea. However, it is probably more potent as ravenwing, or as BA (if they can do it, due to their turbo-charged engines).
ReplyDeleteMy suggestion is drop a squad of two of bikes, and instead take some mobile firepower. Maybe a DS squad of Termies (probably TH/SS) so your opponent has them, plus all your bike in his face. Also, while Korsarro is awsome, he is not that much better than a captain on bike w/ P weapon. so my list would be:
Captain, bike, P weapon=155 (I think, I don't have the codex on me)
Command squad, champion, banner, bikes=230
2xBike Squad (6+ attack bike w/ MM and meltagun)=215
2xBike Squad (6+ attack bike w/ MM)=210
5 TH/SS terminators=200
Land Speeder, Heavy Flamer x2=60
=1500 exactly, and is much more powerful.
Try to go second, and hide your bikes. on second turn, charge forward, getting captain stuck it, with bike squad supporting. combat squad the meltagun squad up, with attack bike and meltagun together to go tank hunting. other half gives cover saves, by moving infront, getting cover from turbo boosting. back shoots. Then when Terminators and speeder come in, attack all out. Terminators go straight in the middle, and are sacrificed, as is the command squad. Speeder contests, goes after shooty units, usually turbo boosting.
Watch way of the eldar's videos (fritz at wayofsaimhann.blogspot.com for more tactics!)
--40kAddict (my computer won't let me put my password in!)
@40kAddict: I agree that list would be better... if it were legal. The only way in the new SM codex that you can take an all-bike force is if you have Kor'Sorro Khan as an HQ option. A simple captain or chaplain on bikes only allows them to be used as fast attack options. I am not 100 percent clear on the rules for command squads, but I am pretty sure you HAVE to have a captain in order to take them. Therefore, if you want the command squad as well as bike squads that count as troops, you have to take Khan AND a captain on a bike, using up your 2 HQ options. That would be costly, but it would allow for some rock-hard bike units.
ReplyDeleteI also agree that BA bike squads would be awesome, if they could have over-charged engines, but sadly that is not the case. They do not have that special rule (as per their codex). It appears that only Rhinos do anymore.
I appreciate the input, guys. This is probably the best tactics post I've had yet.
Actually you are wrong. If you take a captain on bike, you can have a full size bike squad be troops. Also, any captain in the codex (so shrike, lysander, khan, ect) can have a command squad, just like Pedro and Marneus can have honor guard. Read the codex in detail and you will see. It will probably be under the entry for a captain's stats.
ReplyDeleteI ran a similar list, but with two devestator squads, with razorbacks, who supported the bikes, and channeling troops. I find bikes work much, much better with any troops that don't deploy normally: Drop pods, deepstriking, infiltrating, outflanking ect. another option for the TH/SS termies are GK, who also are quite powerful, and will eat a squad a turn, with their WS5, S6, and Termie armor.
--40K addict
I am not wrong about a captain alone not being able to make bike squads troops. Check your codex. If you can find me a page number that states that a captain on a bike grants the bike squad troop status then please refer to it, because I have scoured my codex for about an hour looking for it and cannot find it. I do see that you are right, however, about captains of any type (ICs included) being able to take a command squad of bikes.
ReplyDeleteI must admit when I was wrong. I finally found it: "Mounted Assault" on page 132 of the codex, allows captains (and only captains, not chapter masters or other ICs) to make bike squads troop options. Sorry I doubted you, 40k Addict!
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I'd consider at least one command squad on bikes. They're pricy, but it's your only melee support. Something like everyone with a lightning claw and storm shield, along with a couple meltaguns, and one guy with a hammer. They hang with a captain with a relic blade, and while it's points-heavy, there's not a lot it won't smash, and the saves + FNP make it a beast to take down.
ReplyDeleteSimilarly, I'd take a captain over Khan, and vanilla SM over Ravenwing. Mind you, the Ravenwing box is an awesome bargain for building this kind of force. However...you also want combat tactics. Why?
Say someone charges your bike squads. Not unreasonable, since you're using meltaguns out the wazoo and need to be in close. Ravenwing? Fearless. They're in that combat 'til they win or, more likely, die. The enemy can tie them up, then bring more force to bear on them. Khan's bikes are in it in a similar way, but combat tactics means 'ok, I lose' and then you fall back 3d6, which should be far enough to regroup via And They Shall Know No Fear.
It keeps your bikes from getting tied down.
You can buy some RW battleforces and add the LS tornado to the list for some long range anti-personel firepower (HB with either AC or HF).
ReplyDeleteBut better play them as White Scars, since Ravenwing bikers are too expensive to play (Samael+2 6-biker squads+2 Attack bikes + 2 LS tornado are almost 90o pts)
I play White Scars at 1850pts and I go for a regular Captain w/ Command squad (2 flamers, champion, Power Fist) and then 3 Tac squads with 2 rhino's and a drop pod. Plus all the bikes and meltas you can jam in there. The rhinos will create some LOS block/cover saves and the Tac squads increase the body count.
ReplyDeletewell i have a space marine bike army with korsarro khan with moondrakan and a command squad with champion apothercary and 3 power swords if i am right that is 21 attacks that ignore armour saves and also 4 regular attacks at ininitive 5 on the charge at strenght 5 with hit and run . this squad is a close combat monster with feel no pain and can zoom around the battle field to where they are really needed. also i have 2 5 man bike squads 1 with power fist and meltabombs and 2 meltaguns and da other with power sword and 2 plasma guns. thses units just kick €$@ against heavy armour and termies. i also field a callidius assassin which really ties down units thta could harm my bikes and ignores saves of any kind and can assualt the turn it deep strikes. that is the backbone of my army because the rest of the pints are used up on a variety of things to help my bikes and what units i would lyk 2 try out
ReplyDeleterofl, "i cant be wrong"
ReplyDelete2 hours later "oh shi-"
Personally doing this @ 1500 -
HQ: Captain - Bike, Relic, Artificer Armour
*Command Squad - Bikes; 3x LC, 1x TH; 4x Melta; 4x SS; Apothecary*
TR: 9 Bikes
A) 5 Bikes - 2 Melta & Fist Sarge
B) 4 Bikes - Multi-Melta Attack Bike
TR: 9 Bikes
A) 5 Bikes - 2 Melta & Fist Sarge
B) 4 Bikes - Multi-Melta Attack Bike
TR: 5 Bikes - 2 Melta
TR: 5 Bikes - 2 Melta
It's doing fine, same as Froggage's from YTTH, and have tried running a Hybrid but it doesn't fare too well.
Awesome insight! Thanks for posting this bro! I've been toying around a SM Bike army for some time now (I think I'd make Imperial Fists) and this is just more encouragement to do it. Thanks again!
ReplyDelete